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Post by johnnypt on Feb 7, 2018 12:49:13 GMT -5
Exciting news, saying a prayer to Crom that this venture does justice to Conan. CONAN THE CIMMERIAN for Amazon Studios. Glad "the barbarian" moniker is being dismissed. Conan the Cimmerian sits better with me Gleaned from the creator / writer Ryan Condal's Twitter page. twitter.com/WrathOfCondalNow, who can perfectly portray the new Conan?... Another chance for Momoa?
Plus the fact he's got Gianni's Bloody Crown of Conan picture as his avatar!
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Post by terryallenuk on Feb 7, 2018 14:10:12 GMT -5
Exciting news, saying a prayer to Crom that this venture does justice to Conan. CONAN THE CIMMERIAN for Amazon Studios. Glad "the barbarian" moniker is being dismissed. Conan the Cimmerian sits better with me Gleaned from the creator / writer Ryan Condal's Twitter page. twitter.com/WrathOfCondalNow, who can perfectly portray the new Conan?... Another chance for Momoa?
Plus the fact he's got Gianni's Bloody Crown of Conan picture as his avatar!
 Was just going to say that too before I turned to this page ! Terry |
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Post by philzilla on Feb 7, 2018 14:39:09 GMT -5
I don't see how they can get around Howard's obvert modern cultural problems and remain faithful at the same time. Already seeing articles like this... www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2018/feb/06/conan-the-barbarian-tv-show-amazon"Howard created the character more than 80 years ago, and in recent years there has been a debate as to whether his wanton sexism and racism is compatible with contemporary culture. Writing about the books in 2010, the Guardian’s Allison Flood said: “Villains are usually dark-skinned … the darker the eviller. The more lily-white a woman’s skin, the more prized she is.” She added: “Howard might be a product of his time, but so am I, and it’s impossible to read sentences such as ‘in this accursed city … where white, brown, and black folk mingle together to produce hybrids of all unholy hues and breeds – who can tell who is a man, and who is a demon in disguise?’ without cringing.” This will become the narrative if it's faithful, you can bet on it. |
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Post by niktoo73 on Feb 7, 2018 16:33:24 GMT -5
Now, who can perfectly portray the new Conan?... Another chance for Momoa? Please no, anyone but Momoa. He just looks wrong. |
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Post by johnnypt on Feb 7, 2018 16:40:41 GMT -5
I don't see how they can get around Howard's obvert modern cultural problems and remain faithful at the same time. Already seeing articles like this... www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2018/feb/06/conan-the-barbarian-tv-show-amazon"Howard created the character more than 80 years ago, and in recent years there has been a debate as to whether his wanton sexism and racism is compatible with contemporary culture. Writing about the books in 2010, the Guardian’s Allison Flood said: “Villains are usually dark-skinned … the darker the eviller. The more lily-white a woman’s skin, the more prized she is.” She added: “Howard might be a product of his time, but so am I, and it’s impossible to read sentences such as ‘in this accursed city … where white, brown, and black folk mingle together to produce hybrids of all unholy hues and breeds – who can tell who is a man, and who is a demon in disguise?’ without cringing.” This will become the narrative if it's faithful, you can bet on it.
If we see things like this show up, it'll be the old adage "If you're catching a lot of flak, you're over the target." I'll consider that a plus.
They'll avoid blatant approaches (If Vale of Lost Women is done, it'll be different!), but hopefully they know where to push the envelope, hard!
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Post by KiramidHead on Feb 7, 2018 17:09:52 GMT -5
I quite liked a couple of the unproduced scripts Condal worked on, so I'm somewhat optimistic.
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Post by lordyam on Feb 7, 2018 18:09:07 GMT -5
I don't see how they can get around Howard's obvert modern cultural problems and remain faithful at the same time. Already seeing articles like this... www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2018/feb/06/conan-the-barbarian-tv-show-amazon"Howard created the character more than 80 years ago, and in recent years there has been a debate as to whether his wanton sexism and racism is compatible with contemporary culture. Writing about the books in 2010, the Guardian’s Allison Flood said: “Villains are usually dark-skinned … the darker the eviller. The more lily-white a woman’s skin, the more prized she is.” She added: “Howard might be a product of his time, but so am I, and it’s impossible to read sentences such as ‘in this accursed city … where white, brown, and black folk mingle together to produce hybrids of all unholy hues and breeds – who can tell who is a man, and who is a demon in disguise?’ without cringing.” This will become the narrative if it's faithful, you can bet on it. Not necissarily; for all their flaws the comics WERE able to balance it out. 1.) Conan the Avenger has a lot of sympathetic black characters (Amboola, Agara) and the interracial romance of Diana and Abit is played sympathetically (ironically it's the WHITE Eamon who comes off as a creeper in that scenario). Brian Wood, for all his LEGION of flaws DID do a good job of having Conan bond with the crew (there's a nice scene where Conan bonds with N'Gora and we see his grief and sadness fleshed out regarding N'gora's death). I think that's also why they had Black Kalanthes. Notably when Marvel DID adapt Vale they had some stories of Conan with the Bamula first to make them more sympathetic. For the most part it worked quite well. 2.) Conan's Marvel run has his service with Turan and bonding with the Hyrkanians. It makes the Hyrkanians more then just murderers and rapists (Some are perfectly nice people, others are complex and ambiguous, others are evil). The Dark Horse Run did something similar (Conan's first foreign lover is a Turanian noblewoman who while somewhat conniving is also rather sympathetic in that she does care for Conan and is in a horrible situation; one of Conan's trusted captains in the free companions is a hyrkanian.) 3.) I suspect that's why Kurt Busiek had Thoth overthrow Stygia and make it a nightmare. It got around the "always chaotic evil" trope by showing that it WAS a relatively nice place once upon a time before it became a nightmare. Maybe it can't be completely expunged but it CAN be mitigated. |
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Post by Aryeh on Feb 8, 2018 6:50:10 GMT -5
I'll just say this: if these guys have a vision, if they got their own internal reasons for doing a "Conan the Barbarian" TV series, and that means: if their reasons are not simply those, that someone brought them there and then a committee ordered them to make this TV series, then the series will be good. But if they are there to make a product, if they are ready to compromise any vision they possibly have, then it won't.
I would compare this to the case of Hannibal Lecter on screen: Brett Ratner was sticking to the book "Red Dragon", but his film is so uninspired that it was simply dead-on-arrival. Bryan Fuller, on the other hand, the creator of the TV series "Hannibal" juggled motifs from Lecter novels, and yet that series looks and feels inspired, and it is much closer to what Lecter is about. My hopes are that "Conan the Barbarian" TV series is as visionary as that, and has a clear vision the way "Hannibal" has. At the end, the way I see it, that is all that truly matters.
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Post by Von K on Feb 8, 2018 9:42:07 GMT -5
I agree that a generic gritty fantasy TV series or a GoT clone is not the way to go with Conan. Need to develop an overall vision drawing from the unique qualities of REH’s themes and worldbuilding, both within and beyond his Hyborian Age material, to give everything the depth, multi-season coherence and distinct voice it will need to truly distinguish itself from GoT etc.
That the series title is Conan the Cimmerian rather than Conan the Barbarian is a good sign. It means they’re already avoiding a generic approach even with the title.
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Post by televiper on Feb 8, 2018 10:08:25 GMT -5
It will come down to casting for me, as well as whether or not they are willing to use on-site location shooting and practical effects. I do not want to see another crap-tastic CGI spectacle like the last Conan film.
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Post by Von K on Feb 8, 2018 10:15:41 GMT -5
One of the problems you can get working with older classic material is that later writers have already drawn much from it as a wellspring of inspiration to the point where to a modern audience the original seems derivative, wheras the truth is the other way around.
GRRMartin’s Game of Thrones is very popular with modern audiences, but most of his readers are unaware of the influence of REH’s Conan yarns. He’s pointed out to his fans the influence of REH and Tolkien and Moorcock etc on his own writing many times in the past and even gave a nod to some of them within hs own work.
Another example is the recent John Carter movie which, along with it’s marketing problems, also had issues with the way they adjusted the material to reflect modern sensibilities. Some critics called it derivative of Star Wars, wheras Star Wars was influenced by ERB’s original material, and even by other intermediary classics (Flash Gordon etc) which were in turn inspired by ERB’s books.
I enjoyed John Carter in spite of those problems, but the above offers a glimpse of some of the challenges of adapting older material for a modern audience which will be faced by the writers of the new Conan series.
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Post by Char-Vell on Feb 8, 2018 10:36:58 GMT -5
I wonder how it would work out if they adapted some of the more "objectionable" stories straight on? (I know how it would work out, but humor me.)
I may be off base but it seems logical that the denizens of the Hyborian Age would be wildly racist, mysogynistic, and homophobic to modern, western eyes. Why not show that and use it to reflect on our own attitudes?
It could also provide "teaching moments", Conan could indeed express baffled disgust early in his wanderings when confronted by " an accursed city … where white, brown, and black folk mingle together to produce hybrids of all unholy hues and breeds" but later exhibit a more enlightened attitude when commanding a multi-ethnic pirate crew or mercenary company.
This makes me wonder what people would find more objectionable; Conan hating the Picts because of racial hatred, or the fact he violently robs people as a pirate or bandit?
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Post by robp on Feb 8, 2018 10:49:30 GMT -5
Good points so far and I see that, elsewhere, the "racism" issue is already being raised. Eg Conan calls someone a "black dog" in SIZ. Though, in another tale he himself is called a "white dog". Seems to me REH was more about cultures clashing and civilisation vs barbarism than some kind of white supremacist race trip. Treat everyone equally good and equally bad. After all, Conan is a thief, a murderer and a plunderer, as Char-vell says. I also think he should seek anger management for his berserk rages.
As an aside, I wonder how people envisage any kind of S&S story without any form of conflict being involved? Differences breed conflict, at least in the world of myth and legend. Different family, different tribe, different country, different species. I've even seen people lately complaining about racism towards Deep Ones...
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Post by almuric on Feb 8, 2018 11:13:35 GMT -5
It's not all going to be practical effects, that's for sure. Skylines and cityscapes will need to be done, for a start. There's quite a bit of that even on TV shows set in modern times, that's pretty much invisible to the audience.
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Post by thedarkman on Feb 8, 2018 15:08:09 GMT -5
Now, who can perfectly portray the new Conan?... Another chance for Momoa? Please no, anyone but Momoa. He just looks wrong. Jason was one of the few things that was right in Conan 2011; we would be fortunate to have him on board! |
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Was just going to say that too before I turned to this page !
