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Post by Von K on Sept 25, 2016 17:09:06 GMT -5
Hope I didn't come across as too harsh there Bront. Just trying to make points as clearly as I can. The bottom line is we're all REH fans here. None of us would spend so much time discussing these points for so long otherwise. Remember what Lemmy said: "It ain't my kind of music, but I'd defend to the death their right to play what music they want." Skoal, gentlemen!  |
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Post by bront on Sept 26, 2016 18:23:06 GMT -5
Deuce, quit waffling on man, I'm still waiting for you to show me where REH stated that the Hyperboreans are Russians. Just admit it's your imagination and move on, or don't. No harm done.
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Post by bront on Sept 26, 2016 18:26:35 GMT -5
You find Latin and even Hellenic names peppered throughout REH's Hyborians, for instance Constantius, but I can't find any evidence for a 'Slavic cast' for the Hyperboreans.
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Post by bront on Sept 26, 2016 18:31:42 GMT -5
'All of which is pointing to the fact that in REH's mind early medieval Russia was the general inspiration for the Hyperborea of Conan's time' That's your opinion only on what was in REH's mind, not in print. I never thought any Hyborians as pseudo Russians reading the Conan stories. Von K you don't need to defend Deuce, the big guy can represent himself  |
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Post by deuce on Sept 26, 2016 22:06:25 GMT -5
You find Latin and even Hellenic names peppered throughout REH's Hyborians, for instance Constantius, but I can't find any evidence for a 'Slavic cast' for the Hyperboreans. As I pointed out earlier, "Tomar" is listed by REH as the king of Hyperborea during Conan's lifetime. "Tomar" was the surname of a Russian aristocratic family. I'll get to Olgerd Vladislav in my own good time. |
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Post by deuce on Sept 26, 2016 22:17:24 GMT -5
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Post by deuce on Sept 26, 2016 22:20:36 GMT -5
Deuce, quit waffling on man, I'm still waiting for you to show me where REH stated that the Hyperboreans are Russians. Just admit it's your imagination and move on, or don't. No harm done. Just as soon as you show me "where REH stated that" the Gundermen were inspired by Lowland Scots or the kozaki were based on Russian Cossacks. |
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Post by bront on Sept 27, 2016 1:29:07 GMT -5
'Your problems with reading comprehension have been pointed out more than once this past week' Really |
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Post by bront on Sept 27, 2016 1:55:44 GMT -5
Tomar is also the name of a 10th century earl, a Jarl, of the Danes, active in Ireland, recorded in the Irish annals. According to your line of reasoning the Hyperboreans are also pseudo Danes.
Incidentally that would probably make more sense than giving them a Russian cast since REH had some of his other protagonists face off or ally themselves with the northmen, think Cormac Mac Art and Tigers of the Sea, or Turlogh O'Brien who fought against Danes, although I am not suggesting that the Hyperboreans are Norse, but there you have it.
I think part of the problem is the association with location. Some think that just because Hyperborea is situated in what eventually became northeastern Europe that it stands to reason that we are talking about Finland or Russia, wrong.
Same deal with Brythunia which covers an area that includes what later became Poland. REH clearly noted that the Brythunians became the Brythons not Polish
Hope that helps you.
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Post by Von K on Sept 27, 2016 13:58:26 GMT -5
Deuce, quit waffling on man, I'm still waiting for you to show me where REH stated that the Hyperboreans are Russians. Just admit it's your imagination and move on, or don't. No harm done. Just as soon as you show me "where REH stated that" the Gundermen were inspired by Lowland Scots or the kozaki were based on Russian Cossacks. Bront, it seems to me you've either not read, skipped over, or ignored all three of my points: 1) Neither REH, or Deuce, or any one else has ever said that the Hyperboreans are Russians. To make that claim is a strawman argument, and by implication also takes REH Hyborian Age conception out of context. 2) REH never directly stated any of the historical analogues he may have used to help define his Hyborian states. So it's self evident that he wouldn't have done so for Hyperborea either. 3) Deuce ain't just imagining this stuff. There's a whole bunch of us, some of whom are very well read in REH letters, fiction and influences. The way that you seem willing to ignore reason and continually misrepresent these points is beginning to smell like 'troll' to me, ie you seem to be trolling these particular points. |
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Post by Von K on Sept 27, 2016 14:02:30 GMT -5
You find Latin and even Hellenic names peppered throughout REH's Hyborians, for instance Constantius, but I can't find any evidence for a 'Slavic cast' for the Hyperboreans. Well there's Olgerd Vladislav and Ivga from aWSBB, so a couple of Slavic names are peppered into the mix there also. |
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Post by Von K on Sept 27, 2016 14:14:13 GMT -5
Tomar is also the name of a 10th century earl, a Jarl, of the Danes, active in Ireland, recorded in the Irish annals. According to your line of reasoning the Hyperboreans are also pseudo Danes. Incidentally that would probably make more sense than giving them a Russian cast since REH had some of his other protagonists face off or ally themselves with the northmen, think Cormac Mac Art and Tigers of the Sea, or Turlogh O'Brien who fought against Danes, although I am not suggesting that the Hyperboreans are Norse, but there you have it. I think part of the problem is the association with location. Some think that just because Hyperborea is situated in what eventually became northeastern Europe that it stands to reason that we are talking about Finland or Russia, wrong. Same deal with Brythunia which covers an area that includes what later became Poland. REH clearly noted that the Brythunians became the Brythons not Polish Hope that helps you. Given that there are more parallels in REH for Tomar to have been taken from a Russian context, that's the one I'd go for. If REH was using the Danish Tomar in a Hyborian Age context, given that the Hyperboreans took Aesir slaves, it's not unreasonable for an Aesir name to find its way into Hyperborean culture. But a Russian influence strikes me as more likely. |
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Post by Von K on Sept 27, 2016 14:44:30 GMT -5
'All of which is pointing to the fact that in REH's mind early medieval Russia was the general inspiration for the Hyperborea of Conan's time' That's your opinion only on what was in REH's mind, not in print. I never thought any Hyborians as pseudo Russians reading the Conan stories. Von K you don't need to defend Deuce, the big guy can represent himself Once again, of course, it's not my opinion alone.  I've been following this debate from the old forum, and contributed to it briefly back when it was active. I hung back from this thread for a long while after the old forum closed, but decided to participate again. I never initially saw the Hyperborean's culture as being based on medieval Russia either, but only because I'd not thought that much about their specific culture before reading many of the recent arguments in this area. Nowadays medieval Russia strikes me as the closest approximation for how REH viewed Hyperborean culture in Conan's time, always accepted that he adjusted it to fit his Hyborian Age conception. How do you visualise Hyperborean culture Bront? Hyperborea in the age of Conan that is... |
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Post by bront on Sept 27, 2016 16:33:31 GMT -5
'The way that you seem willing to ignore reason and continually misrepresent these points is beginning to smell like 'troll' to me, ie you seem to be trolling these particular points.' How rude when they get like this. Von K, you parrot Deuce allot, what's with the Igor thing, smell of sycophant to me....or is that Deuce aka Von K |
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Post by bront on Sept 27, 2016 16:39:17 GMT -5
'If REH was using the Danish Tomar in a Hyborian Age context, given that the Hyperboreans took Aesir slaves, it's not unreasonable for an Aesir name to find its way into Hyperborean culture.'
So you admit the 'Aesir name'
'But a Russian influence strikes me as more likely.'
Again, a personal opinion.
Hyperboreans are not Russians or Aesir, although they have some Hyrkanian and Aesir ancestry via the latter slaves.
Reread my post again.
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